Interview with Ex-President of CRI Zelimkhan Yandarbi

Interview with Ex-President of CRI Zelimkhan Yandarbi

09/12/2003

Question (Q): Salam Aleikum, Zelimkha! The Kremlin regime and the contingent of so-called «muftis» (or clergy) of Russia, which is serving this regime, is imposing an opinion that Russia is an ally of the Islamic world and therefore the Muslims living under Russian invasion are supposed to have a goal to help the Kremlin strengthen the potential of the declining Russian empire. How do you see the real situation with the position of Muslims in Russia in the context of Russia's both domestic and foreign policies?

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Z. Yandarbi (ZY): Wa salam aleikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu!First, I must mention that in Islam there is no such institution as clergy, even though some «activists» in togas of Muslim alims (scholars) have been aiming at this kind of concept even since the times of the USSR on the order from KGB (FSB). They are even inventing some attributes and elements of clothes that are different from commonly accepted ones, which actually remind more of robes of a khan’s lackeys than religious scholars. It is being done in order to strengthen the control by Russian secret services over the Muslims. That is, it is additional control and new limitation of freedoms of the believers. From the standpoint of the state’s policies, it is discrimination of Muslims, which the Kremlin has been carrying out for a long time and on purpose.

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It must be explained that an Islamic scholar is not an official for the Muslims under any circumstances, and his authority is not based on any authoritative powers, but only on his competence in religion and in god-fearing attitude towards his own self and towards everybody around him, including people of different beliefs. His main duty is to bring the knowledge to the believers about their faith, in strict compliance with the Shariah, and keep Muslins from anything sinful in their lives.But he can’t be taking on the prerogatives of the Most High or assuming a role of a mediator between Allah and the believers on any issues whatsoever. His role concerning the Muslim community is to call for righteousness, to comment on the Holy Koran and on the authentic Sunnah, to preach the way of the Shariah and solve any arguments and problems in the community based on the Shariah.If you consider the situation the Muslims in Russia are in, while proceeding not from a propagandistic myth spread through the press and through the media by the official propaganda and secret services of the Russian Federation, but while facing the reality of Islam and the Muslims, then the situation looks merely catastrophic.

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Muslims in Russia have been outlawed, even though they were granted all advertised constitutional rights like everybody else was.As far as Russia being an ally of the Islamic world, I must say that objectively only a state where laws and living practice are based on righteousness and justice can be an ally of the Islamic world, which does not apply to Russia at all, where not only Muslims, but the rest of the citizens are getting discriminated against.The international community can see it more and more clearly each day. People of good will and conscience inside Russia have been continually talking about it for quite a while, even though their voices are sinking in the sea of irresponsible and even commonplace speeches and resolutions of the international organizations and forums, which are presented to the pubic opinion, especially to an average citizen, as guarantees of these rights and freedoms in the international state policies of the UN members as well as in each country individually.Moreover, Russia is not capable of being an ally of even the neighboring Slavic nations, which Russia has been showing throughout many centuries of its history, and which can bee seen even in modern times from the example of its attitude towards Ukraine and Belarus. At times it even seems like it was a historical and scientific mistake to rank Russians among the Slavs, because its state policies and national mentality are most often showing the nature of a horde with the permanent desire to subdue, to conquer, to burn, to crush and to humiliate someone.

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Until they get rid of it, the Russian state will not be capable of being anybody’s ally in any righteous deed. Another aspect must be mentioned too. Russia is creating and using the myth of alliance with Islam in order to oppose the US, as well as itЎЇs using another myth of the so-called «Islamic threat» to the West. What’s more, Russia derives a lot of benefit from the confrontation between the US and the Islamic countries, and Russia is doing all it can not to let the Arab-Israeli conflict subside and to unleash a new conflict. Even on the issue of the Iraqi aggression Russia was more interested in its beginning and the more protracted nature of this war, rather than solving the problem politically. And Russia got what it wanted, while pushing the US and the coalition to start a new war at the same time and imitating the «efforts on peace settlement». Because after unleashing the war and getting mired in it, the US lost a lot more than it gained.But Russia's main achievement in this intrigue was to create such a conflict between the US and the Arab world, which would eventually dissipate the image of America in the international politics as a country preferring to solve problems by using political and economic methods, which was actually achieved. And Russia's genocidal war against the Chechen people, which has been continuing for the past virtually eight years and has mainly been aimed against the Islamic component of the Chechen nation, its culture and Islamic self-identity, its world outlook and perception, and against the Islamic social and spiritual foundation of the Chechen nation, rules out any duty of a Muslim to this state, while living under Russian state tyranny.

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The very first duty of any true believer in One Creator of all worlds is defense of faith, truth and justice on the earth, which applies to your own self as well as to the community, the nation, to all people and to anything that lives, by any means available. To protect from any tyranny by a person, organization or state and promote the achievement of good and justice concerning any living being. And this is called the Jihad.

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Q: Many believe that after the arrests of prominent businessmen, after elimination of independent mass media in Russia, and after the review of the privatization results, the West changed its attitude towards the Putin regime. Today Russia's membership in G8 has allegedly been questioned. In your opinion, do you think the West may take any real steps concerning the Putin regime?

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ZY: I can’t be saying that the West changed its attitude towards the Putin regime right away. Although, I would call this regime a traditionally Russian regime, not the Putin regime. Especially, you can’t say that Russia's membership in G8 has been questioned. Personal opinions of the analysts and even some individual high-ranking politicians cannot correlate with the opinion and policies of the elite organization of the world’s economic giants. It’s just not real.

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This organization is moved by the interests and instincts incomparably more global than the fates of individual tycoons or even entire nations, which can be graphically seen from the fate of the Chechen nation, for example. But there is some real motion towards the objective comprehension of Russia's current state by the authorities of the international community that can be felt even at the level of political intuition, at the level of instinct of self-preservation or defense from the threat that Russia is showing more and more demonstratively in its actions. But I think that even that can tangibly affect the image of the Russian state and the effectiveness of Russia's foreign policies. I think in the near future no masks will be capable of concealing the antihuman face of the Russian military and political regime.

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Q: Some observers believe that the crisis in Georgia, which entailed the resignation of President Shevardnadze and nationalist forces coming to power, was caused by some agreement between the US and Russia. What do you think, whose role is more important in the current events in Georgia?

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ZY: I can’t agree with this opinion even for my respect towards the Georgian people. Although, there are such incorrect versions expressed in the press. Both the US and Russia are playing an important role in solving topical problems in making of the states in the post-Soviet space, including independent Georgia. But it’s important to know that the US is doing it as a real superpower actively aimed at major globalization of its role all around the world, and Russia is doing it as a neighboring country, as the empire that loses its former occupied territories and its prestige in the world.

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These two geopolitical centers can have no direct agreement on Georgia or on any other country of their direct or indirect influence, even if somebody would want them to. Besides, it seems to me that the times like the Molotov-Ribbentrop (USSR-Germany) accords are long gone. What happened in Georgia is another step in the natural process of making of independence of the most ancient nation in the Caucasus, which is happening against anybody’s will.Following the Baltic states of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, Georgia is already close to transform into a truly independent state out of being a Russian colony. As we can see, even the predatory overthrow of the first legitimate President of Georgia Gamsakhurdia by Russian secret services in the end of 1991, which was made to make way for their protege Shevardnadze, did not interrupt this process. Shevardnadze turned out to be quite steadfast and wise enough to minimize the influence of the Russian factor in the life of modern Georgia.

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Among the stiff pressure, among the realities and Russia's aggressive policies, Shevardnadze did not become the Kremlin’s puppet. I think this fact from ShevardnadzeЎЇs biography is the reason why his rule ended in such a mild way, notwithstanding his guilt of overthrowing President Gamsakhurdia and acting unjustly towards him.

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Actually it must be mentioned that there is a very important and even determining factor on this point: civil political maturity of the Georgian people, who managed to dictate their will to the state leaders and national leaders in the very difficult conditions of the past ten to fifteen years.

The role of the US and Russia in what’s happening in Georgia today cannot be defined as united and balanced policies of these powers. They both are acting independently, and either one of them has its own ambitious tendencies. And in the final analysis it will depend on their real behavior and on how the Georgian people will view who will maintain the image of new Georgia’s ally. Because national self-consciousness of a free nation moves such processes exclusively in all times.

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Q: Russian politicians were hinting that Shevardnadze's resignation would entail the collapse of Georgia. Among these hints Russian leadership started conducting more frequent meetings with the leaders of Adjaria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, -- the regions which have not been coordinating their actions with Georgian central government in Tbilisi. South Ossetia already announced it would not nominate its own presidential candidate for Georgia and would not even open polling stations on its territory on the elections day on January 4. Can you say that all of them are acting on the instructions from Moscow?

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ZY: No doubt about it! In the situation that develops now Moscow is trying to restore its influence on Georgia that it had lost, and at the same time Moscow is counting on Abkhazia, Adjaria and South Ossetia, or on their leaders rather, who cast in their lot with Moscow since they came to power backed by Moscow, which the entire world can see.But it’s not only the desire of the Russian leadership. You can judge on the condition and the position of Russian public by the poll conducted by Echo of Moscow radio, when most of the respondents answered about the future of Abkhazia and Adjaria that they must be integrated into Russia.Russian public opinion is best showing that the disease of Russism (Russian chauvinism) in the Russian society is hiding much deeper than the political establishment of the KGB (FSB) police state.

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Q: It is a known fact that there was an agreement on collective security signed between Georgia and Russia. Shevardnadze's government signed a similar agreement with the US. Is there a chance that the relations between the US and Russia may get aggravated due to the Georgian factor?

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ZY: I don’t think it will be real for many reasons, and first of all, for the reasons expounded in our conversation. All possible aggravations between the US and Russia on this issue have already taken place at the primary stage of spreading the American influence in the Southern Caucasus. Right now there can only be some attempts made to outplay each other in tactics. Strategically, Russia has lost. And the US should not force the situation. And therefore I think they will be relying on the factor of time, while providing political cover and backup for their policies.

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Q: Can the present situation in Georgia have a positive effect on the situation in CRI (Chechen Republic of Ichkeria)? It's a known fact that Georgia was the first to recognize the independence of CRI when Zviad Gamsakhurdia was President, and the leaders who came to power in Georgia today actually did not make a secret out of their sympathies with the fight of the Chechen people against the empire?

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ZY: Yes, there were some moments when the Georgian leaders expressed the spirit of solidarity with the fight of the Chechen people, and they were showing solidarity every now and then as far as possible, which shows their understanding of the issue of their security and of what the future of the Chechen nation will be, including of how far away Russia will get from their border. As far as recognizing the independence of CRI by Gamsakhurdia’s government goes, this fact really took place, although not at the right time or at the right place as we would want it to. And those who have a cool attitude towards what is happening in CRI today should have learned the lessons from that. No doubt, it’s a fact that the strengthening of the Georgian state will have a positive effect on the future of the Chechens and on the situation in Chechnya. It can be confirmed by historical and modern realities of our common future.

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Q: Many observers believe that the Kremlin's policies aimed at the restoration of its influence in the post-Soviet space are one of the key destabilizing factors. As the most recent example, I can bring up the situation in Moldova, where the opposition demands that the government rejects the plan of settling the Trans-Dnestrian conflict that Russia has proposed. Moscow's attempt to impose this plan on Moldova has virtually failed thanks to the position of the West on many aspects. Can the West be considered as an ally in the fight for independence of the Chechen people?

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ZY: I think the West can actually be viewed as ally in the fight of the Chechen people for independence to a certain extent, and especially meaning the people and social organizations of the West. But the main support in our fight must certainly be the faith in Allah and the will of the people.No one, even the kindest nations on earth, will bring another nation freedom or independence, or will die for it especially. You donЎЇt become free by somebody’s good will, but you become free by the will of the people who strive for being free, who dare be free in other words!

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Q: How do you think you can view the slogan «my enemy's enemy is my friend»?

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ZY: I'd like to take the opportunity and express my strong disagreement with the principle of «my enemy's enemy is my friend», which Movladi Udugov (Chairman of External Subcommittee of Informational Council of CRI), whom I have great respect for, put forward while searching for allies in our struggle. For me such a principle is not acceptable, and I don't think it has ever been or will ever be the principle in the acts of the Chechen Resistance. And especially it can never become the ideological aspect of the Holy Jihad on the way of Allah.

Our fight is for freedom and independence, which are impossible in isolation from the lofty ideals of good, justice, honor and conscience prescribed by the Almighty Creator of all worlds to the mankind. And we can't be adopting just any principles, especially such doubtful principles just because we're having a very hard time. Any enemy of our enemy cannot be our helper. While proclaiming the principle of «my enemy's enemy is my friend» we take the path of our enemy and of all tyrannies of the world that have been terrorizing the mankind in different corners of the globe throughout the entire world's history.

I'm sure that while proclaiming this kind of principle of cooperation, Movladi Udugov just meant the need to unite for all who are terrorized by Russian military and political KGB power. And therefore I would like to offer my associate to correct the principle that he declared. And that's when everybody will be winners, and Chechens first of all, whose lofty ideals for freedom have been admiring all people of good will all around the world throughout many centuries.

Q: The recently pronounced verdict in London Court on the 'Zakayev Case' actually recognized the position of the Chechen side, which claims that it is a war between two states going on in Chechnya, and not some mythical 'antiterrorist operation'. As you know, right away Russia accused London of having double standards and of almost supporting 'international terrorism'. Some Russian politicians are even considering the Court's verdict as manifestation of historical dislike of Britain towards Russia.

ZY: I think that Russian political circles and the very leadership perfectly understand that Britain will never go as far as expressing its dislikes towards Russia. Here you can't even presume an alternative precedent. But in order to put up a bold front, Russian officials need some bluff and they savor it any way they can. And the London Court just reached the verdict based on the laws of the state, and not proceeding from the principle of political expediency or wishes of state officials, like it's the case in Russia. Certainly, the fair verdict on the «Zakayev Case» only strengthened London's image on the international arena, which the British government and Blair personally needed so much after they started having serious problems concerning the unseemly role in the Iraqi campaign.

Q: We know you keep up your creative work, you are writing books and poems. Many of them have been translated to other languages and are read in various corners of the globe. We found out that Belarusian poets translated some of your works. Could you tell us a little more about it?

ZY: There really are some translations into other languages of the world, not that many though. There are some translations into Belarusian as well, and right now a collection of poems is just about to be published, translated by nationally renowned poet of Belarus Rygor Baradulin. By the way, he wrote very interesting poems about Chechnya too. I'd like to take the opportunity and express my profound gratitude to the political activists of that country, represented by Zianon Pazniak, to the cultural activists of Belarus represented by Rygor Baradulin, and to many others for their actions and their words of support on the just cause of the struggle of the Chechen people. I think their position is the vivid expression of the position of all Belarusian people.

To Mr. Zelimkha Yandarbi

Live forever, oh great Chechnya!

Let the souls of the weak vanish.

Undefeated nation worthy of being called genius

And worthy of gratitude of forgetful centuries.

Souls of the strong will not become apostates,

They won't exchange their land for paradise.

And God hath sent them into this world as Chechens

To love and to protect their land from gangs.

Just like before the Sun,

Shall I get on my knees

Before the Soul holy in its battle.

Oh Chechnya honored by Heaven,

Canst thou hear the Belarusian Horseman rushing to thee?

Rygor Baradulin, nationally renowned poet of Belarus.

Translated by Kavkaz-Center(The Horseman is Belarusian national coat-of-arms - a horseman with a shield and a sword, who protects the Homeland).Zianon Pazniak

To honorable Zelimkha Yandarbi

The Spring of Victory

Wonderful time will come.

Flags of freedom flying over Chechnya.

Here they are!

Flowing from the high mountains in a stream.

Here they are!Green valleys of white-red-and-white roses.

This path on the banners

Like a flame in the hearts

Unquenchably burning for us.

(Warsaw, October 29, 2003)Recorded by Ahmad of Ichkeria,